Fear not. Pagans are not evil.
70Is not anti-Christian but pro-Pagan
(This is in response to a new friend post under the hub "How a Christian became a Pagan". Your comments are indeed welcome. Please note that my intention is not to belittle but to celebrate our differences. Cyberbullying is of course not necessary).
In another hub I stated my experience as a Christian to avoid posts trying to take their frustrations out on my beliefs as a Pagan.
It is difficult to grasp the idea of different beliefs. Religion and Politics are the classic examples. All across the History of Humanity one can study, time and time again how men would even kill for their religion or their faith.
Is not even about Paganism, is about tolerance. Tolerance means that if you find a person that doesn't think like you, you will try and do your best to find a common ground in which you can still communicate or connect with that person, instead of dwelling on what makes you different. This is the main reason why I like to state what we do have in common. :)
I forgot to add that we are both humans. We have feelings and the whole set of emotions.
Church (in general, not in particular) has its hands full with its own flock to be overly concerned on those that rather pasture elsewhere. It would be like the United States taking care of Afghanistan while ignoring Mississippi. Wait, they already do that.
Yes, life is a horrible and magnificent experience, yet I am truly grateful for every lesson learned. But I am not a Pagan necessarily because I had a terrible or a wonderful childhood.
What happy has to do with it?
Allow me to clarify that when I was a Christian it was a truly FEEL GOOD religion, I'm sorry if that has not been your experience. In any event, I do not think religion (or your partner, or your city council, or your job, or your children) are there to make you happy. We are happy because we choose to, regardless. I am happy, doggone it, no matter what. I'm even happy when I'm mad!
Matthew 12:34
I'm just satisfied, content and grateful with my life... all of it. My mother invites me to Church and I take my Bible (betcha I can find Proverbs 12 before most of her brethren). All in good spirits, you know. But yes, my main objective is to feel good. Although I didn't leave Church because I felt bad... It just went on like that... no drama, just life.
Now, for those true Christian believers, I will try to talk to you within your context. The Bible relates something about "for what abounds in your heart, your mouth shall speak" or something like that. Be mindful of poisonous words... It's just the way we talk sometimes, even through the internet one can feel the tone, the attitude... and some attitudes can be toxic... Do you know about neurolinguistics? Is a science that studies things like the placebo effect and the power of prayer. It has many studies that prove that ALL THAT WE SPEAK affects our organism.
This occurs where science meets faith. Science is giving in! Whenever they talk about quantum particles, they are really talking about our spirit. We are all connected. Right now, you and I are indeed connected. When you argue with me, you really argue with the part of me that is within you. When I answer you, I really answer to the part of you that is within me. Words are indeed a powerful thing. They can kill or heal. Let's heal.
I wish happy Peter Pan thoughts for you. Remember that even if my soul burns in your hell, you did try your best. I appreciate your mercy.
Some come from a mindset that implies there is only one religion. There is a great site called www.ReligiousTolerance.org. There is also a great hub around here in the matter of Religion and Tolerance by Leisurelife.
This is the link pertaining to Wicca in the Religious Tolerance site. There are many other religions! And most of them have nothing to do with nobody falling from anywhere.
May the best religion please stand up?
In regards of being the best religion, I just don't think any religion is the best religion. I don't think of this as a spiritual competition to see whose soul is cleaner or who gets where first, or whose life is better than anybody else. In fact, isn't it kind of childish to be bragging like that?. King Salomon said it, right? Everything is vanity... Even the fact that Christianity is indeed a fairly new religion, compared to ancient beliefs and practices that are in record way before the Garden of Eden, doesn't entitle anyone to state that Christianity is less of a religion for having such a short history.
What makes you think my parents raised me as a Christian? Now, that is funny! How can we make any assumption of anybody? Especially in here... :)
In regards of picking what I like, that is too true. For example, I read the Book of Proverbs (a lot). The Bible of course, is not our main reference, but I personally study it in a new perspective.
I cannot talk specifics about what WE believe, for like I said, we follow many different traditions.
I could tell you what I believe, but I think you get the picture that is not going to do us any good. I do love lobster though.
I tell you what I don't believe. I don't believe in the Apocalypse. I don't believe in being part of a religion that, for starters, addresses me within the context of "there must be something terribly wrong with you". ;)
Life is what we make of it. Your convictions embedded in you, create the conditions in which you live. Such is the case with faith. Such is your faith, which I hope it makes you happy.
I speak Pagan, you speak Pagan... we all speak Pagan
Even those that consider themselves 100 plus percent Christian, speak Pagan-derived words, for they account for almost 60% of our daily vocabulary. I am going to end this answer with two examples, the days of the week and the months of the Year.
Sunday is for the God Sun, the most cherished god ever since Neo-Paleolithical times. In fact, some state that the Christian Church, during the expansion of the Roman Empire, came up with "the Son of God" in order to attract those that adored the Sun God. Monday is Moon Day, for the Moon Goddess (note we have a duality male/female within our worshiping). Tuesday is named after the Norse god Tyr, the god of single combat. Wednesday is for the god Odin, or Woden, father of all gods in the Norse religion. Thursday is Thor's Day, Germanic god of thunder. Friday is for love, so its Frigga's day, "the Teutonic goddess of love, beauty, and fecundity (prolific procreation). She is identified with the Norse god Freya." If we take the Bible into account, God rested on Saturn's day, or Saturday. Saturn is the Roman god of agriculture, known as Chronus by ancient Greeks.
Speaking of Chronus, remember Father Time? Well, here it is! Now we know that Father Time is really old! hahaha!!! On the other hand, most of the scientific, medical and legal terms used today have their roots in mythology, or Paganism.
Chronus, is the root for words like chronology and chronometer. The suffix -logy comes from the Greek logos which means "study or concept". The suffix -meter means "measurement".
Our Pagan/Roman calendar
For the months of the year, I can't avoid a bit of history. Nowadays we go by the Gregorian calendar, in honor of Pope Gregory, the same Pope that created Halloween as we know it. Please visit my hub related to Halloween.
Anyhow, it goes like this:
1. January- Janus, god of doors and gates.
2. February- after Februalia or the Etruscan god Februus, god of purification (fire), a time period when sacrifices were made to atone for sins. Note how Februus resembles fever.
3. March- before Pope Gregory, March was the first day of the Roman calendar.
4. April- for aprilis, which means to open. Flowers started to blossom.
5. May- in honor of the Roman female deity Maia, and symbol of abundance, daughter of the titan Atlas.
6. June- chief goddess. "Queen of the Roman gods and goddesses, and also the goddess of women and marriage". This explains the "marrying in June" tradition.
The rest of the months are influenced by ancient Rome.
7. July- during the Roman Empire, or before 44BCE, this month used to be Quintilus, or fifth. It was then renamed to immortalize the name of the Roman emperor Julius Caesar.
8. August- originally Sextilus, and renamed after Augustus Caesar, adopted heir of Julius Caesar.
9. September- means seven
10. October- means eight
11. November- means nine
12. December- means ten
So why if September means seven it turned to be our ninth month? More on that in a next hub, I have to eat! Learning and grasping new concepts is so much easier when you know the history behind them. Thank you very much for the opportunity to share.
Gods and Goddesses galore!
- Oglala Sioux (people) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
Oglala Sioux (people), - African Tribes - Yoruba People
African Tribes - Yoruba People - Gods and Goddesses of Ancient India - Crystalinks
- South American Gods
Glossary of Native American Terms : South American Gods
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I could forgive you for presuming about my life, except that you insist on standing corrected.
Intolerance occurs when a person is not able to view the world through other person eyes.
I understand it could be difficult to see the world outside of Christianity. I respect your belief, but your faith is not the most important thing in my life, nor is it confirming to you if I ever was a Christian, yes no or maybe, it is absolutely irrelevant to me.
My path doesn't include making you any happier. Although it was not my intention to sound like I laughed at you, at all.
Take it with a grain of salt. You don´t trust your emotions, I trust mine with all my being. The acceptance of those differences denotes tolerance.
For me is not about Christianity yes or no... is about Tolerance yes!
I could care less about the truth. You uphold it and live it, all the best in your path.
http://crazygata.hubpages.com/hub/No-need-for-trut
And so on... almost 7 billion people in the world... what about the rest of them? The variety of beliefs... of lives, of gods. I respect them all.
I really thought I answered to everything, but this is as far as I go for now. Stay blessed.
Well it is very hard to have meaningful discourse with anyone who says "I could care less about the truth." But I should have known you could care less about the truth when you said you were a Christian from birth because that is impossible. I wonder what kind of world this would be if everyone had that attitude. But hey that's the world's problem right, let them uphold it and live it. What a cop out.
The world is exactly what it is.
Sweet convoluted chaos and I love it just like that.
How many attitudes are out there?
Millions of people like you, so caring and trusting.
And who knows how many persons like me, that could care less about the truth.
I do care about relationships.
Others don't have where or who to argue with. Chaos.
I should have known you were not going to accept/tolerate my attitude or take in life. And that is ok! ;)
It would be childish to think everybody -6.9 billion people at that, having the SAME attitude. Is a funny thought... but I am not laughing...
Hi CrazyGata,
Everyone was Pagan long before Christianity came along, and "borrowed" just enough Pagan beliefs to get more people onboard with their chosen religion. Paganism is really just repspecting the Earth. Although I don't pracitice Wiccan or Paganism, I am open to most religions, and understand where you are coming from. And any religion (or I should say the person practicing it) who thinks their religion is better than anyone else's, isn't very spiritual anyway. Nice hub, my friend.
Thank you very much Jean Bakula!
You rekindle my hope for tolerance!
I wish I could vote up your comment!
Thank you CrazyGata for this very informative hub. I too believe in the principles that neurolinguistics presents to us. The truth of what is in our hearts we often speak out loud. And when we write, what is in our hearts comes out as well.
I read from your hub that you are, indeed, a tolerant, positive-thinking, generous, feeling person. I think I am also. My fear is that the world is not.
Many born again Christians feel so much love for God and Jesus and their neighbours (whether known or not) that they feel compelled to reach out in love and convince 'non-Christians' to follow their belief.
It is unfortunate that this reaching out is found to be offensive to so many. It is truly meant as honest caring for the 'non-Christian.' What I sometimes forget (as a born again Christian) is that it is not my responsibility to convince or convert anyone. It is God's responsibility. My responsibility is to live my life in such a way that it shines forth as an example of what it is like following God.
Your hub comes across to me as a message of the joy of love and tolerance. I certainly applaud that message. I for one, would like to know what you do believe in - not just what you don't believe in. (I love lobster too!) Perhaps that just means I should read your other hubs, which I look forward to doing.
Thanks again. I am a new follower. Up and beautiful.
Dear Maralexa,
I have been reading and rereading your post. :)
I have been thinking of how Jesus conveyed his messages in parables out of mercy, in order to ensure his message could reach his followers.
There are rational numbers, we are used to them, we use them everyday... irrational numbers, on the other hand, can be a pain... yet they conform the formulas and secrets of the creation of our Universe...
There is a good book about this. Is called IS GOD SILENT?
You'd like it, is a very much Christian perspective and pretty amazing data...
http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-God-Silent-James
Not meaning to duck the answer. My belief, like that of so many others like me, is sort of like irrational numbers. One can´t really pinpoint us, yet in a way we serve as foundation for "traditional beliefs", at least from a humanistic/historic perspective.
That being said, if you're still there
I follow what is called THE WICCAN REDE. Our commandment (we don't call it commandment, I'm trying to "translate") is one and only one: DO AS YOU WILL, HARM NONE.
We celebrate the Wheel of Life. Like Hinduism, Budhism and Taoism, among other religions, we believe in reincarnation.
--Wiccan Rede--
This is the FULL Wiccan Rede, which I copied from this site: http://www.prcupcc.org/wiccanredefull.htm
Bide ye Wiccan laws you must,
In perfect love and perfect trust.
Live ye must and let to live,
Fairly take and fairly give.
Tread the circle thrice about
It keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind ye spell well every time,
Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Light of eye and soft of touch,
Speak ye little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
Let love and light be our guides again.
Doesil go by the waxing moon,
Sing and dance ye Wiccan Rune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
And the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.
When ye Lady's moon is new,
Kiss ye hand to her times two.
When ye moon rides at her peak,
Then ye heart's desire seek.
Heed the north winds mighty gale,
Lock the door and trim the sail.
When the wind blows from the East,
Expect the new and set the feast.
When the wind comes from the South,
Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the West wind blows over thee,
Departed souls will restless be.
Nine woods 'neath the Cauldron go,
Burn them fast and burn them slow.
Birch into fire goes
To represent what the Lady knows.
Oak in the forest towers with might,
In the fire it brings the God's insight.
Rowan is a tree of power,
Causing life and magick to flower.
Willows at the waterside stand,
Ready to help us to the Summerland.
Hawthorn is burned to purify,
And to draw the faerie to thine eye.
Hazel, the tree of wisdom and learning,
Adds its strength to the bright fire burning.
White are the flowers of Apple tree,
That brings us fruits of fertility.
Grapes grow on the vine,
Giving us both joy and wine.
Fir does mark the evergreen
To represent immortality seen.
Elder is the Lady's tree;
Harm it not or cursed you'll be.
Four times the Major Sabbats mark,
Both in the light and in the dark.
As the old year starts to wane,
The new begin's - its now Samhain.
When the time for Imbolic shows,
Watch for flowers through the snows.
When the wheel begins to turn,
Soon ye Beltane fires will burn.
As the wheel turns to Lammas night,
Power is brought to magick rite.
Four times the Minor Sabbats fall;
Use the Sun to mark them all.
When the wheel hath turned to Yule,
Light the log the Horned One rules.
In the spring, when the night equals day,
'Tis time for Ostara to come our way.
When the Sun has reached its height,
'Tis time for Oak and Holly to fight.
Harvesting comes to one and all
When the Autumn Equinox does fall.
Heed the flower, bush and tree;
By the Lady blessed you'll be.
Where the rippling waters go,
Cast a stone, the truth you'll know.
When ye have and hold a need,
Harken not to others greed.
With a fool no season spend,
Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and Merry part,
Bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
When misfortune is enow,
Wear the star upon thy brow.
True in love ye must e'er be,
Lest thy love be false to thee.
Mind ye threefold law ye should,
Three times bad and three times good.
What ye send forth comes back to ye,
So ever mind the rule of three.
These eight words the wiccan rede fulfill;
An harm ye none, do what ye will.
Follow this with mind and heart,
And Merry ye meet and Merry ye part.
--
Please note that we celebrate Earth path through the Universe, equinoxes, solstices are very important to us. Christian Church about 325ACE started taking all these pagan festivities and combining them with Christian events. You celebrate the birth of Jesus in December 25, winter solstice (or Yule) is around December 21. No where in the Bible is written about the date Jesus was born.
But it became a rational number.
The Pope ordered it to be proclaimed as such. Search the Council of Nicea. I'm not badgering. Simply stating that sometimes we defend things that we really truly don't know.
The truth doesn't really matter. It doesn't. What does matter is that you hold your faith before you. I hold mine, we have a small meeting of the minds, send good thoughts and might become better friends between us than from our own brethren.
That matters. The Bible advises about not contending about Faith, yet too many Christians live and breath for an argument.
In the end, when is time to go on living our lives, picking up after our children, running to the bank, or trying to rush through traffic, it doesn't really matter. Stay blessed and Merry Meet!
Thank you for sharing your beliefs so warmly. I believe we do have "a small meeting of the minds".
I do know that Christians celebrate Christmas at the time of the winter solstice (close to it) and that it is at that time of year because it follows the harvest and is long before spring. Apparently people needed a big celebration at this time of year to help them get through the dark and cold days until the spring. Also, Dec 25th was chosen because it was very close to the winter solstice.
Also, the origins of Easter, come from many pre-Christian traditions. Including, the return of the goddess of the earth representing the "resurrection of life" in the spring after the desolation of winter. Also, the festival of the Anglo-Saxon goddess, “Eastre”, who was celebrated on the day of the vernal equinox (1st day of Spring). Many old springtime traditions included the Easter rabbit, a symbol of fertility, and coloured eggs, originally painted with bright colours to represent the sunlight of spring.
My understanding of Jesus' parables is that he spoke in parables because only those who had ears "to really hear" his message would understand what he was teaching. To others, his parables were just stories.
I find much about my Christian faith to be interesting as well as truth and, indeed, light to me. And, by the way, I did not fully embrace Christianity until 2003. It opened a new freedom for me and a new way of relating to the world. It also opened wide a new clarity of who I am.
I can't thank you enough for sharing your Rede with me. I respect your openess with me and ask God to bless our new understanding of one another.
Sincerely, Marilyn (Maralexa)
Eostre!!! yes! One of my very first hubs is about her...
The celebration of one's faith, regardless... is what unite us... unto one common good... yay!
Like the sun, it has many infinite rays... all of them shed light in many infinite directions. I recognize the light in you, by your faith.
http://crazygata.hubpages.com/hub/A-Wiccan-point-o
I sure am grateful! Stay blessed!
During my research across the religion of wicca I came. Amazed to discover how many people actually practice this religion that has its roots in witchcraft, was I! Strictly forbidden in the Bible, witchcraft is.
Learned that all wiccans do not believe the same creeds I over the course of the years have. Herh herh herh.
Is wicca satanic, hmm http://www.anunseenworld.com/Wiccae.html
Of wicca dangers. Yeesssssss.http://www.anunseenworld.com/wicca.html
CrazyGata,
There are alot of people on here who are crazy as loons and think they are good Christians and better than everyone else. Don't let it get to you. Hang in there.
Thank you for the reassurance Jean, stay blessed :-)!
Dear Yoda,
Here so you can further your satanic research:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/sale
Peace
Ah yes, fallen race, the human race is. As desperately wicked, the bible explains the heart of man is. Satan's trademark for he roams the earth seeking whom he may devour, persecution of all religions is. Yes, hmmm.
As the Bible is not my point of reference, I commend you can make it sound so magnificent.
But, doesn't the Bible also talk about men being more than the gods?
Glad to see the link on Religious Tolerance. This is one of my favorite sites!
Men being more than the gods, hmm? My Bible not in! Said in Psalm 8:5 to be less than Ggod for a little time, even jesus is, "With glory and honor you made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him." \|/
Ah! Glad you caught that! So your Bible states "a little lower heavenly beings"... and crowned him, yes...
Now, how do we match that with men being Satan's trademark?
This post has helped me tremendously! I thank you for speaking your beliefs in a calm way and very on point. I couldn't have done it so kindly.
I believe that the bible was written by man and interpreted by man. Not all words translate the same in different languages so of course men are going to pick the closest word to the translation.
Christians are going to believe that anything non-Christian is in the hands of the "Devil", "Satan", "Lucifer" and make assumptions on just that. If people, not just Christians, would take the time to research and expand their knowledge base on other religions they would have peace of mind. Because something isn't what you believe doesn't give you the right to judge and say something that you obviously have no knowledge of.
I'm pagan and I absolutely love going to youth group, sometime church services. I am an open pagan and love sharing my beliefs when I am asked. But that ended when the youth group asked me not to come back. Now, I may have not been christian but I loved learning and as much as they asked questions they seemed like it didn't bother them. So I felt hurt that they didn't seemed bothered by it but then kick me out. I didn't preach my beliefs because that would make them uncomfortable. I by no means would want that. Don't ask questions if you know your going to get answers that you don't agree with and then kick me out. I wouldn't have shared if you wouldn't have asked.
Sorry, this just reminded me of that time in my life. I thank you for sharing again!
Merry Meet and Blessed Be!!! )0(
ErosRyder
Merry Meet!! Most absolutely!
Kindness is a powerful weapon!
Sorry to hear they didn't want you back though... Sometimes, when they go home, they will tell their parents, and there you go... Since you didn't get to convey your views directly to the adult, it is but natural they will react defensively...
Remember that is not you... ;) cheers! and thank you for following! :)o(:
It wasn't so much the other kids asking question as much as the youth leaders and adults. Thanks :)
Ironically...I could care less about the truth too lol! I was raised in a devout Mormon household...which I am sure our bible bangers will frown and scorn...although Mormons do consider themselves Christians!
Regardless, I am not at a point where I don't care. I don't think anyone can know the truth and anyone who says they have the truth in the palm of thier pious hand is dillusional at best. I admire faith and virtue. I admire values and instill them in my family. The only truth I adhere to is Love. All things surrounded by love are right based on YES, how I feel. Oh well if that makes me naive, ignorant or unrighteous.
I think I am a Pagan at heart. I also think I am a bit of a witch. I don't try and label myself. My thoughts and actions are the only label I need. I enjoyed the honesty in this hub and the direction it is going. Someone needs to seriously think before throwing all those stones! Blessed Be...!
Cheers to oblivious then! Blessed be!
There is always going to be something that we ignore, therefore we are all ignorant! :)o(:
Forrest Gump feathers traveling at whim!
Another great article and again you keep your cool; I don't know if someone was getting into my family business I would have a hard time staying calm. My Mother and grandparents are the greatest people in the world and they are Christian. My grandparents who never judged anyone, christian or not, passed on years ago however. Even though I am not Christian anymore my mother would do anything for me and has rescued me on several occasions...
It is indeed a great exercise of character, but the outcome lasts a lifetime! Glad to know about your family... Wish I could say the same about mine... but is OK http://crazygata.hubpages.com/hub/I-hate-my-mother
Wonderfully written hub. I was born a Christian myself, in a Christian family. Which may explain why I consider myself to be Christo Pagan. I believe that everyone should not belittle each other over religious beliefs, no matter what they may be. We are still all human therefore should respect each other. And I find it amazing how people become so judgmental and rude whenever they hear the word paganism. Voted up for well written and I do agree.
Thank you very much for posting and following.
Sadly, the stigma of others being less people because they do not share some beliefs is way older than the Bible.
I am currently doing some research on the Bible, like most topics I literally stumbled upon them. Until two days ago, I thought Babylon meant confusion (due to the Christian formation).
It really means Gateway of the Gods.
There are so many things we label and ignore...
Thanks again. )o(
P.S. Do you have a related christo-pagan hub? I am yet to be educated.
I do yes. And indeed it's interesting to find things in the Bible that are related to paganism. That is what I am constantly telling my mom lol. I'm just grateful that she's more acceptable to my beliefs than anyone is accept for my boyfriend. He isn't pagan himself or anything but he's interested in my ways and find them to be unique
My christo Pagan Hub is:
tsadjatko Level 5 Commenter 8 months ago
Forgive me for presuming upon your parents but it was you who started the hub with "Born a Christian' I think anyone can understand why I would have concluded your parents chose to raise you a Christian and am baffled at why you would say you think that is funny. Be that as it may I asked you this question: "Did your parents love you when they decided to bring you up as a Christian?. If you were born a Christian, and a Christian is someone who has repented from their sinful nature and accepted the perfect sinless sacrifice of God's only son, Jesus Christ as your savior, then am I to accept that you made that decision at birth? I find that funny.
In actuality I suspect you were never a Christian and that is why I say you need to reexamine Christianity. Here is a Hub that says it all. If you always disagreed with this hub then you were never a Christian.
http://tygillis.hubpages.com/hub/Are-You-on-The-Ro
But hey if you say you really accepted Christ as your savior and repented from sin at one time in your life I'll accept that.
Please don't take my comments as being intolerant. I just believe in calling a spade a spade and if it offends that is your problem. Truth often turns grey into black and white and that is a good thing, if you are searching for the truth. But if you simply want to feel good, and trust your feelings over truth well then that is a recipe for trouble. What I meant by feel good religion is not that Christianity doesn't make me feel good, it is that I don't trust my emotions, my feelings as the truth. It is a good feeling to believe that there is no sin and we are all good and there is no hell or judgement but that is not the truth.
I would have been happier if you addressed my questions in the other hub about paganism ....I really want to know the answers.